Skycoin AMA Log (held at ark.io)
originally held July 2, 2017 in the ark.io slack
synth is the skycoin representative in this AMA
boldninja Let’s all give a warm welcome to @synth from SkyCoin.net and for taking the time to do this AMA
mike Hi Synth
jakethepanda Hey @synth
thrice.pi Hey synth
boldninja I think we can start - you guys know the drill. Give him some time to respond (no more than 2-3 questions on backlog so he can catch up)
dr10 How would you - shortly & in easy words - sum-up the advantages of SkyCoin to magazines and non-crypto people?
mgaruccio Can you explain a bit about the mesh net? Is it just an mpls network between nodes or is there something deeper going on?
michaelthecryptoguy Whassup @synth
tranzer hi synth. I have a question - are those coins that are not in circulation in any cold wallets since only a portion is currently available according to CMC? What would you say is the 1 unique feature that Skycoin has?
synth It is very difficult, because Skycoin is a very large project and already has +6 years of development. Different parts of the project have different objectives. The cryto, coin part is about solving the problems with the existing consensus algorithms. Being able to do +300 transactions a second, transactions in seconds instead of minutes (faster than credit cards), eliminating miners, eliminating block rewards (eliminating inflation) and eliminating 51% attack and the other problems with mining. then there are other repos and experimental projects under https://github.com/skycoin such as a meshnet and distributed VPN prototype, where people will be paid coins for forwarding traffic. Also prototypes of distributed social media application, with peer to peer data replication and different experimental projects. Research into immutable data structures for next generation internet. Some of them are very radical.
dr10 How does the Network consensus algorithm Obelisk work and differ from widely known algorithms like Proof of Work and Proof of Stake?
mgaruccio So how much exists today? Could I build an app on the platform if I wanted to?
mike In terms of the rate of progress, what is currently your greatest limiting factor - like funding, manpower, currently available technology?
Can you explain a bit about the mesh net? Is it just an mpls network between nodes or is there something deeper going on?
It is not actually a meshnet. It is software defined networking, it is much more powerful than just meshnet. Its a new type of networking and new completely new protocol and networking namespace, independent of the existing internet. It supports source routing, while the existing internet does hot potato routing, so never achieves optimal latencies. It supports multi-homing, which IPv6 does not (Which is critical for when we have gigabit or terabit networking and multi-redundant bandwidth paths) It has default oppurunistic crypto, both link layer and end to end; so everything is encrypted by default, unlike the current internet. It has store and forward networking and will operate in Africa or even under conditions where latencies are in the minutes or hours and packet loss is excessive. Where existing protocols cannot operate reliability. It is much more robust than IPv4/IPv6 or TCP/ip It has improved privacy. If a packet takes a route that is 10 hops, each hop only knows the previous node in the route and the next node in the route. It is not like IPv4 where each packet gives the source and destination. The privacy level is something that does not exist on the current internet. IP addresses are replaced by public key and no one can read traffic to a destination, without knowing the private key of the public key that identifies the destination. The system does not need 3rd parties or certificate authorities. The design is a revolution.
are those coins that are not in circulation in any cold wallets since only a portion is currently available according to CMC?
The coins are locked into 100 addresses, each with 1 million coins each. And they are released sequentially. There is a complicated locking procedure and releasing new coins requires unamious consent and a shared secret among a group of developers. Anyone in the shared secret group can block distribution of more coins (to stop the problem that killed NXT). So by design the coins were supposed to be difficult to distribut, there had to be a good reason or justification before a distribution would be approved.
mike What are the hardware requirements to operate a wireless Skywire (the name for the protocol described above) Node?
arc-over-water nxt i think is doing ok..
How does the Network consensus algorithm Obelisk work and differ from widely known algorithms like Proof of Work and Proof of Stake?
PoS and PoW use miners. Miners receive new coins every block as a block reward. So miners are making money and will fight to control the network. An everyone will suffer because the newly created coins represent inflation. Skycoin was designed to eliminate mining and eliminate the inflation. No block rewards, no new coins. And we needed to develop a new consensus algorithm to do that and there are only a few methods that work, for these constraints. The consensus algorithm is based upon Ben-Or’s randomization procedure for achieving consensus in a distributed system, with some improvements for detecting adversarial or malicious nodes who are trying to prevent the consensus process. There are white papers on skycoin.net about the specifics. I would call it “network consensus” and it uses a sort of Web of Trust (WoT), where if the people creating blocks are doing a bad job or attacking the network, then the community can get rid of them. At the same time, the people who control the network, do not have any real power to attack the network except by slowing down transactions and being annoying, so even if they become malicious the only issue is how to get rid of them and select new people.
mike Any idea when Skywire will be released and ready to test on hardware nodes (testnet or mainnet)?
mgaruccio So if there is no block reward what is the incentive to run a node?
vega What will be the actual function of Skycoin (the coin itself)? Will the coin be used as currency, as transfer of value in and between all these various developing functionalities, semi-separate projects to tie them all together or it’s function will be more limited?
michaelthecryptoguy Do you have an idea on the specs of a node that would be required? In the beginning? What about with 10,000 users? (edited)
nxt i think is doing ok..
There were three people that each owned 30% of the coin. One decided he wanted out and began dumping. NXT was over 150 million I think. When he started dumping, it basicly killed NXT. Skycoin’s distribution was designed to stop dumping by the founders and early people. After Skycoin gets to 30% of the total coins distributed, there will probably a hard time lock on the remaining coins, so that a maximum of 5% of the remaining coins can be released per year. So the distribution for the other 70% of the coins will take a minimum of 14 years (and could be longer). We cannot even sell the rest of the coins, because if we sold 10% of the total now at $5 per coin, it would be 50 million or something and we cannot spend or even use that amount of money. Not at this stage. Ethereum spent 30 million or 70 million in their first year or two after the ICO and then nearly went bankrupt. Silicon Valley wages and offices etc. We have been very conservative and have kept costs down and kept them responsible. Now we have coins like EOS and they want to raise a billion dollars and have not produced anything yet, do not hav a blockchain and I have no idea what they would spend that money on, but they are throwing $350,000 parties in time square for marketing/PR etc…
arc-over-water what prevents you from selling? anybody can spend that amount of money? nxt is a newer platform than sky, market value is $220 million plus $166 million, I get what you are saying but the evidence is wrong. Community is huge and active in Nxt. But you say it is killed, i don’t get it?
What will be the actual function of Skycoin (the coin itself)? Will the coin be used as currency, as transfer of value in and between all these various developing functionalities, semi-separate projects to tie them all together or it’s function will be more limited?
Yes. Bitcoin has no purpose. An altcoin does two things - check your balance - send money to other people Two features - check balance - send For a coin to have value, people need to be forced to buy it to consume specific services. There has to be stuff for people to spend the coin on, that there is demand for. So Bitcoin is really just a purely speculative asset. It generates no cashflow and its value is determined by perception or social convention. Ideally, Skycoin would start off as a “better Bitcoin” (faster, more secure, new algorithm, simplier, etc), then over time we would build up an ecosystem and have some type of backing and tie the coin’s value into the network and usebase. The mesh netork (skywire) is good, because it gives something for people to do to get coins and it allows people to consume the coins. You can run your internet traffic through a VPN that tunnels over Skywire and maybe it will be a nominal amount (actually absurdly small amount of money), but there would be real economic activity and a real userbase and community using the coin. Not just speculation. Later on the scope is much wider.
arc-over-water So the skycoin wallet will be a VPN for our internet usage?
nxt is a newer platform than sky, market value is $220 million plus $166 million, I get what you are saying but the evidence is wrong. Community is huge and active in Nxt. But you say it is killed, i don’t get it?
What I am saying, is that NXT would be a lot further along than it is now and probably around where Ethereum is, except for that mistake in the distribution and keeping it too concentrated. It set them back by years. They did not consider what the impact on the price would be, over the long term, when one of the early whales started selling off or decided he wanted out.
arc-over-water But they did the same again with IOTA, same lead dev.. Its over a $Billion they released and let the market price distribute
So the skycoin wallet will be a VPN for our internet usage?
The VPN is just one application, that uses bandwidth over Skywire. There are several things in development. This is a BBS like 4chan, that is completely distributed, with CXO. https://github.com/skycoin/bbs It will run over Skywire also, This is like building a whole new internet from scratch. The apps that run on it are going to specialized and privacy focused, etc GitHub skycoin/bbs Contribute to bbs development by creating an account on GitHub.
mike So Skycoin is a Proof of Resource coin where its value is actually backed by provision of a useful service, in this case private and secure networking? Are there plans to add decentralized storage and even distributed processing to it?
arc-over-water so these 100 separate million coin accounts will be 100 ICOs or how is the distribution patterned? is it written into the code or up to the devs?
slackbot Custom Response https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FGo3FkC3uSWXGHatPQyny2brMWjAIJsHFCR-Lhkl_m0/edit#gid=0
So if there is no block reward what is the incentive to run a node?
running a consensus node does not cost anything. You can run it on a raspberry pi. The important thing is that if the people doing consensus are doing a bad job, that the community can get rid of them and replace them. The other important thing, is that they can be audited and determined automatically if they are obeying the protocol. the miners in skycoin are not very powerful and cannot do anything except slow down transactions. They are unable to spend other people’s money without their private keys, so the consensus/mining nodes are almost irrelevent. It is not like Bitcoin where the miners can hold the network hostage or act selfishly (driving up the transactions fees for their own personal benefit and delaying any innovations that would improve bitcoin for everyone, etc).
So Skycoin is a Proof of Resource coin where its value is actually backed by provision of a useful service, in this case private and secure networking? Are there plans to add decentralized storage and even distributed processing to it?
We have decentralized storage, which is called CXO. But only the bandwidth is monetized by Skywire. We do not nickle and dime and try to attach a coin cost to every API call. Everything that should be free is free. So its a different philosphy. On top of CXO we also have distributed social media applications (simmilar to Steemit) CXO is very similar to IFPS, but simplier and designed for our internal infrastructure and with our crypto standards, instead of being a mismash.
mike Is it possible for Skycoin to choose the best paths and route around bad or slow nodes as damage to the network, in effect reducing their impact on consensus? looks like you answered the question above while I was typing…
tranzer How many tx/s can skycoin handle? What are block times?
thrice.pi 300 right? ^
arc-over-water on your website it says you will have a NON- Turing complete lisp language?
so these 100 separate million coin accounts will be 100 ICOs or how is the distribution patterned? is it written into the code or up to the devs?
We will have a distribution page, up on the website soon. Its complicated. Skywire, is designed to pull coins out of circuation, through a sort of tithe on network activity and it does automatic buy backs effectively. So the distribution will actually peak and then decline. But one distribution is from the locked coins, and the locked coins are freed, then circulate, then end up at the foundation (from the skywire tithe are pulled out of circulation), but still count towards the free float. The coin holders also receive a coinhour dividend and there will be a market rate conversion between coin hours and Skycoins and coinhours are the actual currency for the Skywire network. If you do not have enough coin hours, then you sell Skycoin for CoinHour at the market rate, to purchase bandwidth; but if you have a lot of coins then you have enough coin hours for downloading movies or VPN or whatever you are doing and it is essentially free. So there is a dual level economic structure. Both with coin buybacks to pull coins out of circulation and with a dividend or incentive to encourage users to hold the coin if they are using the network.
arc-over-water so there will be two currencies, holding one reserves the other
Is it possible for Skycoin to choose the best paths and route around bad or slow nodes as damage to the network
Yes. This is very important. The person dialing a connection, chooses the path of the connection! You can choose the lowest latency path for video games or Skype, and choose highest throughput paths for video downloads etc. Or can choose paths through specific nodes or facilities or countries, for security concerns and to minimize the number of points that the traffic could be intercepted at.
mike Will Skycoin still have the node subsidy plan for setting up and registering the mesh nodes like originally planned?
dr10 When do you plan to be able to present your planned technology and services to the masses? When can they use what you try do accomplish?
on your website it says you will have a NON- Turing complete lisp language?
That is probably an error. LOL. We will have a new website soon. There is no scripting language on the skycoin blockchain. Each transaction is constant time (for efficiency and security and to achieve the highest transaction rate and to keep the coin simple). However, we have a language called CX in development, which is a next generation language that is beyond “smart contracts” and the toy things on ethereum. It uses immutable datastructures and is something completely new. Most of the skycoin “smart contracts” will probably be off blockchain or in personal blockchains and we do not want to shove all the data onto the main chain, because forcing everyone to download everyone one elses contracts it the world is just spamming the blockchain to death. There are better ways to do it.
Will Skycoin still have the node subsidy plan for setting up and registering the mesh nodes like originally planned?
Yes. We are going to get from 20% to 30% distributno of the coins, through network incentives for people running Skywire nodes, consensus nodes and services. I think this is going to be massive for marketing. And it is the best way to get the coins out to the users, instead of all the coins being held by whales
samuelvihollandia I read how you suggest Skycoin could be used for VPN connections, is this the largest use case you see?
arc-over-water Maidsafe has been working on the redesign of the net for about ten years, what are you doing the same and what different?
I read how you suggest Skycoin could be used for VPN connections, is this the largest use case you see?
No. This is just something easy, that we have working. Its not the largest applicatoin at all. 80% of internet traffic right now is bitorrent and the bitorrent sites are being systematically shutdown and driven off the internet. They wont go away, but will jut go underground. What.cd (largest music tracker, with 800k people) was just shut down, bakabt (largest anime tracker) has gone closed registration, Nyantorrent etc… User communities of millions of people will be migrating from the clearnet (the existing corporate shit-net) to the “new internet”. We are going to see people migrating by the millions, whole user communities of millions of people.
arc-over-water Are you a corporation or foundation or charity? Registered? I am not sure i have seen anything about who you are? What is the dev team size? Background? - Maidsafe is open and clear so is IOTA and Stellar etc. Can you let us know who you and your team are? Especially you are talking about 15 year and up obligations..
techbytes Do we need to hold skycoin to run Skywire nodes or consensus nodes like masternodes from other coins?
Maidsafe has been working on the redesign of the net for about ten years, what are you doing the same and what different?
Maidsafe is in version 2 or 3. Maidsafe will not have a real coin until version 9. Each version takes them about two or three years. Maidsafe will not be “done” or ready for atleast 18 years at this rate. Skycoin has been in development for ~6 years and the meshnet for 4 years and it will be finished in a few months. To the poin that people can start using it. Skycoin is similar to maidsafe in the objective, but has a different approach and architecture and primitives. We did not try to do everything, but focused on a smaller, tractable core and got that done. There will be multiple projects in this space, but few teams are able to plan on the time horizon necisary for building a new internet or able to design each of the components of a system this large, or figure out how to do it so that it is useful at each stage of construction of a project that may take a decade. (edited)
mike Can you see a way for Ark and Skycoin to build on each other in a synergistic manner? I’m all for not reinventing the wheel, especially when it looks like it will be replaced with antigravity like Skycoin. I see Skycoin as essentially replacing TCP/IP and providing mesh network type functionality at the hardware level, Ark would run on top of it as a top level application layer.
arc-over-water are you up to date on Maidsafe, they are nearly out of Alpha and its more like release early next year? But that being said, Maidsafe says once it is released it is like a virus or AI type, so does Tau Chain, and also Autonomic by HunterMinerCrafter, are we heading towards AI with Maid, Sky Tau and Autonomic?
dr10 smartbridge now! :kappa:
mike So Skycoin would act as a sort of global decentralized cloud server to build on top of. To communicate, it is more like sharing encrypted files to selected recipients than it is sending messages or hosting sites on a specific server.
Are you a corporation or foundation or charity? Registered? I am not sure i have seen anything about who you are? What is the dev team size? Background?
I think there are over ~60 people who have worked on Skycoin or have made major contributions. Its really a project from the darknet. Many of the contributors are anonymous. Some of them have security clearances and were in the military industrial complex and one of them worked at the San Diego Naval Defence Research Lab and a lot of the idea for the networking protocols came out of public sector academic researched, funded from there. We also have a lot of very very early Bitcoin people, hardcore crypto people that predate Bitcoin and an Ethereum core developer, etc.. On the Chinese side we have an early investor in Alibaba and telecom investor. And are doing pilot with china aviation group (owns four publicly traded airline companies) and apparently now Sinopec (which is 2nd largest publicly traded corporation in world). Then we have people who are part of israeli and US intelligence and are probably doing some sort of money laundering or phychological operations background, who just showed up for some reason. This group seems very interested in the “applications” of these coins and how to improve tranaction privacy and the specifics of the CoinJoin protocol implementation. We got a lot of advice from people experienced in forensic accounting and what they wanted to see and where they felt Bitcoin was deficient and where it leaked metadata. Then a bunch of PHD level people doing research into distributed database consensus algorithms and another group doing programming language research. Then a lot of people from the deep darknet, anon, frog twitter and cipher punks and bitorrent communities. (really should be listed as two seperate groups). And people from the Russian darknet community. We have like eight Ivans. (edited) > I see Skycoin as essentially replacing TCP/IP and providing mesh network type functionality at the hardware level, Ark would run on top of it as a top level application layer.
Yes. The key functionality is two things - connecting to people by public key (networking) - distributing self validating, immutble data peer to peer (transactions, blocks etc… content addressible storage) And you can build almost anything on those two building blocks. The whole internet will eventually be rewritten on top of those primitives and it will replace many of the existing protocols.
arc-over-water Who is the entity that is funding this? I think you have done 2 ICOs? How much did you receive? The first was 10c and the second was @ 50c per coin, released 6 million, is that correct?
samuelvihollandia Are you planning to enter a different exchange market soon?
arc-over-water Have you personally been in Sky from the start? What members have? Who allocates the ICO money etc… I hope you understand that decentralization with investment is a two edged sword, we invest in people but we cannot know these people…. So… we question.. (edited)
thrice.pi with all these outside parties that helped to build skycoin and bring it where it is today who are the main core team who will help to keep all these cool features running. Will these outside parties be recruited for the long haul?
Who is the entity that is funding this? I think you have done 2 ICOs? How much did you receive? The first was 10c and the second was @ 50c per coin, released 6 million, is that correct?
The people who funded the project for the first four years, were early bitcoin and deep crypto people; who were unhappy with the fact that Bitcoin and the other alts did not seem concerned about the core issues at all. They gave us over 1200 bitcoin I think, over several years and did not ask for anything in return. The early Skycoin devs were doing academic research, architecture and new algorithms. Prototyping and simulation. The later stage people were more project managers and doing implementation. We did four ICOs for small amounts, to fund development and to allow developers working on the project to buy in. The first ICO I remember was at $0.10 per coin and the price now is about $4.00 per coin, so its up ~35x or 40x, but when you consider the Bitcoin price going from $100 to $3000, the increase has not been so much. lol (edited)
arc-over-water With the price up 35x in about 1 year, is it not now time to cool the run up and release another ICO? At what amount of coins released and what procedure?
mike Would Intel Edison or Joule, or Samsung Artik 10 work well as a Skywire wireless node? They have 2 Gb-8 Gb RAM, 8-64 Gg eMMC storage, 802.11n wireless, bluetooth, and some with Zigbee?
Have you personally been in Sky from the start? What members have? Who allocates the ICO money etc… I hope you understand that decentralization with investment is a two edged sword, we invest in people but we cannot know these people…. So… we question.
I think there wer three different groups that merged together in first three years, that had similar objectives. Because the code was in different language. There was python, C code and then eventually golang and the golang code became the basis for the current codebase. The way the coin allocations work, is that it requires unamimious consent for releasing coins and it has to be for a specific, ear marked purpose and can be blocked by any of the devs. Then there is a pool of coins in bitcoin for various project managers to allocate. And that is an operational fund for paying developers, contractors, marketing etc. Then different people have different responsibilities. Then we also have corporate funding and sponsorship and some companies paying our full time devs etc, which helps a lot.
arc-over-water Silicon Valley (TV SHOW) recently had their decentralized web running on a network or refrigerators? So i would guess, smart phones, smart gadgets? Home gadgets etc could add services and receive rewards from Sky?
mike best would be a totally open source and publicly audited manufactured system on a chip for the nodes to prevent any backdoors. Even chip designers now don’t really know what they’re putting into the chips since they just drag and drop black boxes known as IP cores into the ASIC designs.
With the price up 35x in about 1 year, is it not now time to cool the run up and release another ICO? At what amount of coins released and what procedure?
I think the Skycoin price has been doubling every 40 days, for as long as I can remember. However, it will still be years before it is in the top 20, its still a long way to climb. It took bitcoin years to go from 0 to $1, even though it was growing at 1% per day the whole time for six years.
best would be a totally open source and publicly audited manufactured system on a chip for the nodes to prevent any backdoors.
we are going to use arm
arc-over-water IOTA is also working on their own hardware for nodes etc, Trinary asset is JINN
synth all intel and AMD systems have remote management engine backdoors. So they are not safe for storing large amounts of coins. We also have alpine linux and special version of linux, that is 6 MB and has everything that is needed for running our toolchain. It will not have any binary blobs in the kernel or anything that we cant compile from source. It does not have systemd and does not have gli, but uses musl. And does not have openssl.
mike so looks like the Samsung Artik 5 and 10 can run it no problem, they’re ARM based. 25x35x4mm package for the Artik 10, Artik 5 is smaller, less powerful but has 2 separate antenna ports, nice for mesh networking with an omni and a directional antenna.
earlyarkinvestor how does Ark compare to Lisk?
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earlyarkinvestor isn’t Lisk trying to achieve interoperability between blockchains as well
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mike nice! looks like an ARM based server rack let me know if you need any help with it, see you’re on solidworks, which I run as well.
synth this is the skycoin cluster; it has 8 CPU boards; 4 cores per CPU, 2 GB of ram per CPU and 64 bit ARM processor. Only one program will run on each individual board, so there is compartmentalization and a physical gap so that compromising one process on a system does no allow all other processes on the system to be compromised
mike looks like 2 ethernet ports per board.
synth and the hardware does not have the qualcom backdoors and is actually chinese equipment; and the backdoors are normally at the kernel level because they are not at hardware backdoors yet lol
mike do they have SATA ports, maybe M.2 for storage?
synth and we will hav an ARM openwrt router eventually too this model does not have SATA, but we have a model with SATA; you could hook up 16 2 TB drives, lol and download half the piratebay to your cluster (edited) the skycoin infrastructure is cluster based and designed for running across +300 computers, with one “node” deployed per computer. Eithe a CXO storage node, or a skywire SDN/meshnet node, or a VPN end point node or a consensus network, or skycoin node, etc. We have multiple node/application types. so this is a “personal cloud’ by itself its not like StoreJ where you have other people storing your stuff; you are going to have ~5 clusters and 300 computers and can store your own files, on your own internet, on your own hardware. You do not need to go outside of your own network.
mike Have thought it’d be nice to have a board with an array of M.2 sockets to run SSD arrays without all the cables, have the busses shielded in circuit board.
synth yes, i think there will be m.2 eventually these actually use a microSSD for storage, and its 48MB/s
mike any idea on the pricing on your ARM boards in quantity? We are looking at Intel for Bitseed V3, but ARM would be good to stay with, especially using your boards if there is SATA.
arc-over-water Do you have a general idea of usable functions to be released next in what order? The first release was the Coin and wallet, then the ICOs and can you give a general future with dates if you can
synth the boards are $30 each and the memory for solid state, is actually more than the the cost of the CPU/RAM/board now. Which is sort of insane.
mike so you have microSSD, what’s maximum size? we shipping 1with Tb hard drives right now
synth Bitseed mike is going to help with this; so we can pool the boards and do a custom PCB
mike yes, that’s where we see the price jumps, is in RAM and eMMC costs. and it’s hard to find low cost boards with SATA
synth try the orange pi the price goes up 30% for SATA
mike yes, very nice specs.
synth eventually, we will make one that has custom PCB and is a pluggable blade server, I think.
mike I like the Samsung Artiks for the tiny form factor for drone routers, cubesat/picosat possibilities. but like the fact that you are controlling much deeper down the supply chain with your boards.
synth we only need ram, CPU, then microSD slot; and that is it. so the wifi and all this other stuff is just crap and its junk. We only have communication, storage and computation. So should be minimialist.
mike yes, we use very few of the ports on the pcduino nano, no need for video, audio, IR
synth there is even open source FPGA toolchain and a one instruction computer with subtract and jump if not zero; and if you have ram and a byte array, could even compile down to that; which is trolling, but for signing transactions or something, you could operate at that level.
mike do you have a link for the FPGA. My favorite has been the ZYNQ 7000 series, but this sounds a lot lower cost.
synth I have to ask about the FPGA
mike Blue Canyon uses ZYNQ 7000 for their Cubesat bus.
synth it is education company in shanghai
thrice.pi i don’t want to disrupt this communication u and mike have going on cuz its good to see you two discussing these things so please do continue..but i just a simple question that mike actually asked earlier which i didnt see a reply to..he asked what type of spes is needed to run a node for skycoin
synth how much is it for cube sats for launch? 200 for 3 million?
mike it has dual core ARM with an attached FPGA and both analog and GIO, PWM
he asked what type of spes is needed to run a node for skycoin
We are trying to keep to level where 2 Ghz arm board with 1 GB of ram can run it. ideally
mike 50K per 1U satellite was the going rate, but that is coming down a lot.
synth skycoin is very minimalist; it much lower on resource usage than either bitcoin or ethereum; the bandwidth usage is less than 10 Kb/s *10 KB/s
thrice.pi thank u..yes it doesn’t sound like much at all..thank you for your reply @synth maybe i missed this answer but when is the next ico taking place
mike so current Bitseed V2 can run it no problem. is dual core Arm with 1 Gb RAM, 1G ethernet and SATA, 4 Gb eMMC on board.
synth the next ICO is just marketing event, but is july 20th I think and it is just run up before largest exchange listings and marketing and PR push etc oh, the dual core arm can run bitcoin and ethereum; that is amazing; ethereum should be CPU hog
thrice.pi how long is it on for ?
michaelthecryptoguy also techbytes had a good question >>>>>Do we need to hold skycoin to run Skywire nodes or consensus nodes like masternodes from other coins?
Do we need to hold skycoin to run Skywire nodes or consensus nodes like masternodes from other coins?
No. We want to have some kind of freemum thing. If you are not paying coins, the nodes will allocate 20% of bandwidth for the free tier But you wont have congestion if you are paying, so much better service and speed, but we don’t want people not being able to access a service or the network if they have no coins in the wallet but we need to cap the resource usage of the freemium tier, so that it does not get out of control or clog the network
thrice.pi @synth the ico in july for marketing purposes that u mentioned …is that pertaining to what mike asked about when he asked “Will Skycoin still have the node subsidy plan for setting up and registering the mesh nodes like originally planned?” (edited)
synth it is easier to get people on network, without having to do anything; then they wil figure out the rest later and how to optimize it and setup a 32 node cluster and load coins in and learn linux and use a CLI and becoming a mining baron with a 10 Gbps uplink and physical cables to their neighbors and wifi nodes on their roof etc, lol
mike so looks like you’re using the Orange Pi PC, one of the connector ports is the USB, the other ethernet. http://www.orangepi.org/orangepipc/ . These are nice cards. orangepi.org orange pi pc - Orangepi
synth eventually, if you have 40 Ghz and directional antennas, satilites or drones make sense for long haul or relaying traffic between cities. I think if we can get this working, the “miners” and hardware innovation will be insane. We have guy who did PHD thesis on printing phased array and fractal antennas with organic semiconductor ink and he already wants to start companies to do antennas for skycoin “mining” hardware; but the software still needs a lot of work before they can start this insanity.
mike yes, that’s what we were waiting for with Bitseed, been doing BTC fullnodes in mean time.
thrice.pi it seems skycoin is one hell of a coin..but it may be difficult to use for the everyday user to wrap their mind around..you think there is potential for something like ark to be used as a gateway to skycoin..so the everyday user can use something easy like arks network to link to something so broad, complex and revolutionary like skycoin ? @synth (edited)
synth i will give you the solid works files, so you can start manufacturing these in bulk; we do not have factory and even assembling 30 units at a time is difficult for us
thrice.pi sorry if this has been addressed..i may of blinked and missed it with all these great questions (edited)
mike the antennas can be printed with graphene ink, have over 200 dB gain on a cubesat compatible form factor if done right.
michaelthecryptoguy This would really help :dancing: people in third world countries turn into a :sun: (self :this:owned) Financial Services and Communications Company :bananadance::goodjob: :hadouken: Now we just need to find a way to get them a smartphone :partysaurus::tophat: (edited)
mike would very much like to do that, maybe come up with packaging which takes a lot less time to assemble, lower cost. though makerbeam is cool… that’s been intent, have stationary nodes with storage, and open source modular mobile with mesh networking, which can achieve global penetration with secure, encrypted networking.
synth yes, stationary, moving nodes creates a lot of problems skywire only works because its it designed to run over point-to-point segments and not for “mobile adhoc networking” where people are moving around
arc-over-water Do you have a basic program product release? Is it correct at them moment it is just the wallet?
mike so the routing tables don’t update that often?
synth https://github.com/skycoin has a lot of different applications https://github.com/skycoin/bbs works right now the routing tables only change on new connection; so you make ~10 connections to a pubkey and if some drop you create new ones. so there is redundancy in the path and transit method. “diversity routing” where as the direct connections between nodes are supposed to change less frequency, such as not more often than 10 seconds. Ideally never changing. any change to underlying physical connectivity, causes update cascade and is a change to network topology (should be minimized). Where as connection dropping or routes being or connection established, does not change network topology and has no administrative overhead in bandwidth. short range, mobile ad hoc routing needs to be handled by another protocol like BATMAN, while fixed infrastructure like WIFI hotspots, fiber between cities, ethernet cables etc is handled by the skywire stuff; so if you enter a coffee shop and connect and are there for 30 minutes, then you are fine; but if you are driving down the street connecting to different hotspot every 5 seconds, its not designed for that and needs another protocol layer for “mobile”
mike so nodes can move if the transmission is not interrupted, like a beam forming antenna could do it as long as the beams can be moved fast enough to not interrupt the communication.
mike so nodes can move if the transmission is not interrupted, like a beam forming antenna could do it as long as the beams can be moved fast enough to not interrupt the communication. see update, they are ok even if some interruption. makes sense though, works fine for having like mini cell tower and access points, hand held mobile is another protocol if moving from cell to cell.
synth yes, phased array would be fine; or signal interrupted for second or even if signal goes out every hour for and hour and comes back on but fundamental changes to network topology are more annoying, because everyone involved in routing across the whole network has to get notified; so you actually have to do the updates peer to peer, over CXO; and eventually network has to be segmented so that each node belongs to one or more routing/subscription domains that are partitioned in a sane way in the current internet the number of hops between two people can be ~40 or 80 or just some insane number; in skycoin it will be 4 or a max of 7. etc, from house to neighborhood, to city, to city/country and then to destination. It wont appear as 40 physical hops, that can each have their own independent congestion the advantage of phased array, is that you just throw it on your roof and it can scan for whoever it can connect it; and then can connect to different people or best person, without having to climb up on roof and ajust anything; the beam focus is on software control i like the BBS and VPN, because we do not need to build a physical new internet to run them; we can just tunnel over the existing internet and its useful. It will take years before we see a hardware alternative to the existing internet. Even people are installing 100,000 nodes a month and its growing at 1% per day, it would still take 10 or 15 years until it could replace the existing internet. There is just so much equipment installed and even if growth rate is massive, it will take forever.
mike yes, this is what i like about it, much easier for automated set-up than pointing antennas, even with motorized directional. had thought of using low frequency for nodes to transmit gps coordinates to locate each other, then point highest possible frequency for range to connect at each other.
synth the VPN will be big application; hardware vpn, whole house VPN; you plug it in and it VPNs your whole house and all your connections the ISPS are allowed to sell all the data they collect now and you can start hardware blocking the IP addresses for ad servers and tracking servers and so on; and different vpn end point for each device on the lan and be able to rotate them out automatically what will happen, is that all the torrent sites and communities will be driven underground; and when that happens, the downloads will eventually be blocked or slowed by ISPS and you will need a “new internet” to really get a lot of the content that is available to people now. Five years ago, there was no point in doing this. Today the motivations are emerging, that will drive people to something new and another thing is that reddit has been overrun with bots; controlling all the upvotes and content now. And corporations have completely taken over and subverted facebook and twitter. People are going to be looking for decentralized platforms and there will be a mass movement to the platforms that can solve the bot manipulation problem, the shilling problem and the company owned by corporate money whore sellout problem. so there were attempts at a building decentralized twitters and facebooks, but five years ago there was not a need; now people are ready to siwtch and the technology is ready. the skycoin project is building the base layer, then the communities are building their own projects. We are just giving them the tools.
mike Yes, like as an example, twitter made my sign-up email public, had no idea, was getting spammed all the sudden, finally found out why when I went to twitter to stop getting multiple copies of a privacy notice. Would very much like to bridge skycoin with Ark, so Ark runs on top of this VPN, and advantage is that your VPN is trustless, or at least much more decentralized than relying on a single VPN provider, which is 100% reliant on trust.
xano How do you feel the incredible potential for illegal activities will affect the future of Skycoin and mass adoption?
charles I also don’t quite understand how skycoin solves the bots on reddit
xano Almost everyone loves free movies, series and music, but what if ISIS starts using it for example
synth now, on twitter; for instance hillary clinton campaign paid twitter money for “brand management” and if 300 people you follow said something negative about her, you wont see any of the tweets. And 1 person in 4000 says something positive and everyone in the that persons followers, will see the tweet in the feed! The companies are controlling what people see and what information is allowed into their feeds. Its not organic anymore. Its not based upon your preferences. It is based upon making the platform friendly to advertisers, who can pull their money out. They are pushing social agendas even and requiring the companies they are giving money to, to censor particular people and movements, to keep the advertising money. Even Google is being forced to comply with these demands. Fortune 500 pulled out 700 million/year in ad revenue and then google agreed to censor search results to please the advertisers. And then they are threatening them with fines in the EU unless they comply and serve the governments and corporations. Decentralized social media, means that you own your own data. It means that you control on your computer, the algorithm used to sort and prioritize your feed. Instead of allowing it to be controlled and manipulated by a third party, who is a whore for money trying avoid being fined by the EU and groveling before soap companies threatening to pull their ad money out, unless they censor things. yes, ARK could use skycoin network for block and transaction distribution. And could use it for networking, to avoid blocking. And ARK could be deployed as a node in the same framework as skycoin. in the skycoin clusters. There is https://github.com/skycoin/viscript and we can add ARK here. This is a cross platform CLI, and application launcher and for cluster management eventually.
mike thanks! will post to our devs. we have and are adding a lot of API’s and CLIs for different languages.
I also don’t quite understand how skycoin solves the bots on reddit
It is outside of skycoin project, but the people building the BBS has a really cool filtering algorithm. Everyone is identified by their public key and can build out a web of trust. And its like page rank for users. Its a decentralized type of moderation, that is automatic. is ARK in golang?
arc-over-water Why golang over rust or scala?
mike Ark core is written in node.js , may be ported to go. There is a go api/cli being written, by @chris I believe.
arc-over-water when will there be a lisp coin platform :slightly_smiling_face:
mike golang is done? nice!
boldninja https://github.com/ArkEcosystem/ark-go GitHub ArkEcosystem/ark-go ark-go - Ark GO client for ARK.io blockchain ecosystem #golang #ark #blockchain
mike lisp - that would be fun! Continue to be amazed lisp is still around, but popular for machine learning apps. yes, we need lisp added, can you do it arc-over-water? lisp seems to have good function for parallel processing but don’t know details myself.
arc-over-water now there is Shen.. http://shenlanguage.org/
How do you feel the incredible potential for illegal activities will affect the future of Skycoin and mass adoption?
The people selling drugs will love skycoin. Bitcoin was worthless until people could buy drugs with it, then it was money and it went from $0.01 to $1000 in a year. When the internet was created, the first thing people were doing was downloading porn. When bitcoin was created the first thing people were doing was buying drugs and guns. ISIS does not need skycoin, because they are using xbox messanger and facebook messanger. They do not need crypto. Every terrorist attack means budget increases, so the government loves ISIS. Terrorism is big money and the more terror, the more money there is to make. People are making too much money off of ISIS for them to get rid of the problem any time soon. Pedophiles were also the first ones to adapt stenography, i2p, tor, tails and bitmessage. They are always the first ones testing out any new crypto stuff. You should look at the logos of the stenography apps and you can guess what kind of people wrote these applications. Even two years, before skycoin was launched the intelligence and money laundering people were already showing up and giving lists of requirements for scrubbing or hiding metadata. If I was building the next silk road I would be looking at tech like skycoin is building. I think everyone has had that idea. We really cannot control what people are going to do with this. Its just inevitable progress and its going to happen whether we do it, or maidsafe does it or someone does it. Its going to happen. (edited)
mike looks interesting. have you seen julia, https://julialang.org/ . very impressed with its benchmarks, comparable to go think the best way to end terrorism is to end foreign interventionism. Last I knew, Switzerland doesn’t have a problem with terrorists.
arc-over-water killary and obomba
michaelthecryptoguy Sad but true.
mike and the bushes
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arc-over-water fake news on an amazing level… sandy hook.. 911 moon landing… Stephen Hawking… anyways..
charles North Korea also does not have a problem with terrorism :)
arc-over-water Sky! the limit
mike don’t even have to go to that level, just the current ongoing farce about Russian intervention in the election and supposed ties to Trump team members. War is the health of the corporate state.
synth terrorist attacks are now advertising events for nike; they are fighting each other for who gets the product placement in the latest ISIS attack. It keeps people glued to their televisions and otherwise people would not watch the news. Even terrorist attack keeps people on the television and the fortune 500 fight each other, to get the ad spots for the people glued their television. The governments and companies race in, like sharks with the latest “surveilence” bill to get the governments to buy billions of dollars of useless equipment from them. The government agencies all rush in to influence the press and get budget increases passed. Its just insanity. They only care about money.
mike it would be very inconvenient to improve relations with Russia for those making money and expanding power over escalating global tensions.
arc-over-water wasnt the first main scandal trump attack that he weed on some prostitutes in Russia. OMG
synth they have oil companies and russia produces oil; so hey want any execuse for “sanctions” to force people to buy their oil instead of russian oil. They would do a war, just to stop any Russian oil pipeline to Europe. It just about money.
arc-over-water Putin is actually kicking some ass with his speeches the last years.
synth if russia gave me free prostitutes, I would pee on them too, lol. Why not? (edited)
mike don’t forget Pussygate - the press sat on the tape for 10 years until 3 weeks before the election, instead of during the primaries.
arc-over-water crazy shit out there… time for crypto to shine..
xano I just wonder how services like mega would have ended up with Skycoin
synth the “Y2K” was also excuse, to sell tens of billions of dollars of “upgrades” to government and corporations. They told them “give us your money or the sky will fall”. terrorism is the same story, its just turned into a money making scam. 90% of the surveilence crap is just companies finding excuses to lobby the government to buy over priced equipment, so they can make money. They do no even know what to do with the data they collect. They are doing insider trading and rigging markets and all sorts of crap with the data and then panicing when people start using HTTPS because its harder for them to keep making money the same way.
arc-over-water Mega2 is about to show its prototypes
synth you have mom and pop local police departments, buying $150,000 string ray cell phone interception equipment that is NSA level, who could not even afford it, but its paid for out of 10 billion dollar DHS “terror” fund to buy useless equipment for local police. To “fight terrorism”. Its really a joke.
arc-over-water Sky list of aims over the next two years? Next ICO cost and how it will be released?
synth people know that companies like apple and goolge are required to hand over all their data to the government. including messages, so why would anyone use imessanger or icloud? So they are staging fake events with “police cant break the 4 digit pin on an iPhone and its unbreakable” when they can actually trojan the phone from the carrier, etc and have all sorts of insane mandatory backdoors. So we are heading towards a decentralized internet and these new apps, as people get sick of being tracked like animals.
michaelthecryptoguy @synth What is your background? Can you tell me a little about your prior experience, regardless of what area it was in? (edited)
Sky list of aims over the next two years?
Get meshnet working Get BBS and first demo apps working Get VPN working and get it to users List on more exchanges Build up community Improve the wallet, fix website, translations into more languages ec
arc-over-water Also the two Chinese guys who wrote the technical whitepaper, the scholars, are part of the team?
synth @synth What is your background? Can you tell me a little about your prior experience, regardless of what area it was in? I did a lot of things. video games, hedge fund/finance, crypto, investment stuff etc… Now am I a sort of project manager.
charles How will the price of skycoins be determined for the next ICO, I, suppose it cannot be above market price, else people would not buy it, but too far below would depreciate the coin
arc-over-water do they want high price at this point or well even distribution to the best placement of people?
Also the two Chinese guys who wrote the technical whitepaper, the scholars, are part of the team?
One of the chinese guys has nothing to do with it. He is a professor that put his name on paper his graduate student published. And now the professor wants to hide the paper, because he thinks the chinese government is cracking down on bitcoin; but he is wrong and the government doesnt care and the paper is in english so they cant read it anyways. And the other one is a core ETH developer. Chen was core ETH and wrote the golang implementation of Ethereum. He is not very public and does not want to be in spotlite or bothered. most of the contributors for skycoin are in the background or hiding actually (edited) many of the ETH people are all whoring themselves out to advisor boards to various tokens, or dozens of tokens and ICOs; but most of the serious crypto people are very private and hiding themselves. They do not want to be known, do not want to promote or advertise themselves and they are in the background. Or they have too much money already and just want to hide. They are also lazy because they do not have to work anymore, or they are busy with other things. they also want to avoid taxes and being targetted for theft and do not want attention from government skycoin cannot have a “Team” or “Advisor Board” on website, because we asked everyone and no one wants to be public or wants to be in a public position….
arc-over-water yes best to live in a country your not citizen of and earn money from a country your not living in… Been doing it for ten ears, way less stress, (edited)
synth many early bitcoin people, who identified themselves publicly on twitter; they cannot travel to brazil or certain countries without risking being kinapped and ransomed for money lololol
arc-over-water vitalic knows kung fu maybe,,, well he speaks Chinese..
charles Do you think skycoin not having a public figure will negatively affect adoption?
arc-over-water i think it has.. 6 years on and quiet forums and slack
synth we can buy public figures or an adviser board; but they would not have anything to do with project except to put their name on it to create confidence for public; which is what all these advisor boards really are
arc-over-water in the background assuming tek development. Next ICO cost and how it will be released? github is always active…
synth i really do not know about the next ICO
synth it is around the 20th of next month. and will be 1% to 10% of the skycoin. I am not sure the exact number is set and it will probably be a fixed price
dr10 this ama is a marathon :trollbounce: nice!
arc-over-water how much of the 100 million is obligated to your team and the people who funded it?
synth but then followed by a weekly auction or second priced auction for a fixed number of coins, that will occur every week for 8 weeks; but not sure how many coins or if it will actually happen
arc-over-water so if its a high price it is 1% and low price it could get to 10%
how much of the 100 million is obligated to your team and the people who funded it?
The people who funded skycoin, did not receive anything for it. They have no entitlement to the coins. they had to buy in at ICO like everyone else. Even the developers working on it, had to buy in.
arc-over-water ok so they have already been looked after in the 10c ICO round
synth i think the next ICO is mostly marketing event, and to “get it over” with. We are in a bubble now, so we should raise money now, before the ICO bubble pops. Is what people are telling us. we cannot spend more then 50 million, so selling an insane number makes no sense. 10 to 15 million is probably reasonable, for next 3 years. And that is with a really good full time marketing team, and trippling number of developers AND funding several parrallel hardware projects.
mike My approach to Skycoin is regardless how much of a financial return it might provide, it is an investment into producing a future I want to see. Also look forward to earning it by running nodes.
arc-over-water So that could be you release 10,000,000 coins and get $10,000,000 dollars for your covering expenses next three years
charles Can a person with limited technical capabilities run a node?
arc-over-water or $20,000,000 as it goes
synth the people who are going to pump the coin, want us to sell off as much as possible. They are pressuring us to do that. However, if we sell fewer coins, then the price per coin will be higher. If we only sell 10 million in coins, then the price can go up a lot higher than if we sold 500 million in coins. I think EOS is going to raise a billion dollars and I have no idea what they will with the money, except use it to buy EOS and drive the price up or some scam. They are not going to spend it on development. lol > Can a person with limited technical capabilities run a node?
eventually, yes. maybe not right now. after tutorials, yes
arc-over-water EOS seems like it is trying to go bear bones and not be as complicated as ETH…
mike I think it is smart to hold a lot for distribution to node operators as a replacement to mining for a good distribution, also selling some to have distribution among those who are interested but not technically inclined to run nodes.
synth So that could be you release 10,000,000 coins and get $10,000,000 dollars for your covering expenses next three years The coin price is like $4 or almost $5 at high. It will be at $5 by ICO I think, atleast. The market cap has doubled every 40 days, for a while now. 10 million coins at $5 per coin, is 50 million. We have to distribute coins via the skywire nodes, to make it fair; because ICO is not a good way to get coins into the hands of users. Its only good for fund raising and for whales. We decided that we will distribute most of the coins to users and just use sales to whales, to fund development.
arc-over-water there must be ways to spread to diverse groups the 10,000,000 coins?
synth the problem is that all ICOs end up going to less than 20 whales
arc-over-water every member of a altcoin slack gets a coupon invite If an ICO knows their customer that can be prevented..
synth there are people who own a large percentage of ETH and they want to diversify; they can gamble 20 million in an ICO and could make 50x more, but if they lose it, then its a slight loss; they have so much ETH that they cannot even sell it or convert it, without tanking the market
arc-over-water in one day every altcoin slack member of every altcoin could get a btc address used once in their pm, allowed a max amount sent etc..
synth yes, ideally, that might work we have been doing OTC sales at market price; with a cap of 10 BTC and that works well
arc-over-water do the OTC reflect in the blockchain? (edited)
synth but we have single whales that want to put in 700 BTC and each one individually, is larger than whole individuals doing the OTC sales OTC is “over the counter”, or direct sale; when people private message a developer and ask to buy
arc-over-water ok so private sales are happening
mike uploaded and commented on this image: TEC chart.png 1 Comment Here is a sample method based on power law for pricing I have planned for Ark based Token Exchanges for projects, including funding Ark/Skycoin based nodes. As more as sold, the price increses by a power law so people can enter at the irsk and expected ROI combination they feel comfortable without being pressured into hasty emotional decisions by FOMO.
mike *irsk=risk so entering on any part of the curve looks the same as any other part.
synth hmmm how does this work? the more money you put in, the more you pay?
arc-over-water but as you do these OTC sales it reflects here in distributed? http://explorer.skycoin.net/blocks
mike here is a link to the spreadsheet, has the formulas and table of calculations for the graph, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1en9lqzBIuHgp0-Q3ohoq3yJUe1lJcOK9U4bF2TiXZew/edit?usp=sharing yes, the more that is put in, the higher the price. it will take some experience to determine the best parameters to prevent instant sell-off while not stalling the exchange indefinitely, and different project might be best suited for different exchange rates over time period.
synth we have a really good strategy now We can distribute coins to top content producers on the BBS to people doing bountries (like skycoin logo, sticker design etc) to people who want to do development (mobile wallet etc, some features for bbs and bug fixes) Then massive substained distribution, over time to the people running the skywire nodes. Then disribution also to nodes hosting content on CXO. Then distribution to people coming on to platform who are bringing user communities with millions of people (we have been talking to these people for years and they do not have real developers, so we have to help them; they only have web designers and curators and community managers but cannot actually develop anything new).
mike like a long term term ArkSpace project for space exploration and development will be sold over a lot longer time frame than funding an index coin bridged to Ark. yes, and either way, the project can award blocks of tokens to contributors other than just for money. I’m a fan of the Slicing Pie method.
arc-over-water Ok so your saying it will be between 1%-10% next month to get funding and start the marketing campaign. Then after that distribution then there are monthly small releases of ICO and the majority being bounties for services rendered. and nodes etc
mike http://slicingpie.com/ Slicing Pie Perfect Equity Splits for Bootstrapped Startups Slicing Pie is a formula that allows founders to create a PERFECTLY FAIR equity split between founders, investors, partners and employees. (92kB) Skycoin is very similar, but doing it manually with adjustment.
synth yes what i am interested in, is if we can block the BBS up and get alot of users with the incentives every dollar in coins we sold over OTC, drove the skycoin market cap up $4 we would sell coins, then price explodes the next week; because people promote it on twitter and blog about it skycoin needs to get on more exchanges
synth I have to sleep now. LMAO. We should end AMA soon
arc-over-water cool thanks for your time… haha 3.17 am here
synth 4 hours?
synth is there an archive for the AMA?
dr10 reddit hopefully :joy:
michaelthecryptoguy Thank You for taking your time to answer everything in complete detail. It was nice that you cared enough to make sure everything was answer very thoroughly.
boldninja @michaelthecryptoguy can you copy everything and make it reddit friendly? thanks @synth for taking the time for this AMA it was :mindblown: really interesting stuff
techbytes marathon session today.
michaelthecryptoguy I sure can. As long as jarunik hasn’t already started. (edited)
mike Thank you very much for joining us synth, please stop by again. I will also be continuing to check in on skycoin slack for updates as well, skycoin.herokuapp.com The closer the integration of Skycoin with Ark, the better.
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